Butterfly Labs Pre-Orders -- No more refunds : BitcoinMining

Breaking! KnCMiner Refund Queue is COMPLETELY FAKE! These guys engaging in, without doubt, criminal activity. Please do not ignore this!

As most of you know, I have been keeping the community updated with the latest KnCMiner.com under handed practices and tricks.
If you need to catch up read the following posts:
Post A - Lies to keep customers from refund, only to backtrack on the promise
Post B - Censoring customers who are pointing out that the units they are getting for used
Post C - Sends out old used and broken units to customers
Post D - Scamming Customers out of 2 for 1 and Plan B
Most recently was how they screwed hundred and thousands of their customers out of Plan B and/or their 2 for 1 Neptune.
Over the course of the last few months I have created many contacts within the community and received messages from others who have also been victims of KnCMiner.
In the last 24 hours, I received a message from someone that works for KnCMiner, informing me that the claim of processing refunds taking so long because of the number of request, is completely false!
The tipster provided me with evidence to prove that he works for them, and as promised, I can not jeopardize his job by revealing anything about his identity, but I can tell you that there was absolutely no doubt he works for them
The tipster indicated to me that an executive decision was made to stop processing refunds, because Bitcoins had reached a low value, and handing out refunds would be too costly. As a result of this, the company started to claim that was there was a long queue for processing refunds and as a result, refunds will take much longer.
They are intentionally hold back refunds, waiting for BTC to go up, before they start processing them. These guys are Criminals.
The tipster told me I will find all the evidence I need online and through the forms; he told me just look at the chart of BTC Value and when Refund orders stop being processed.
Here is what I found for evidence:
Take a look at the when the price of BTC Drops to a long time low:
BTC Chart
You will notice that BTC takes a dive the start of April.
Now Take a look at just a few the customers, who to this day still haven't received a refund. What you will notice, few if any refunds get processed after the BTC Crash:
Another Note, is another excuse they are using now, is that they are too busy with the Neptunes and need to focus on that, instead of refunds.
We are currently in the production and shipping phase with the Neptune miners and our main priority and focus is on shipping the miners to customers as quickly as possible. Due to this extremely busy period the processing of refunds will be taking longer. - Kurt
Guys, we need the community to come together on this one, not only for the sake of justice, but for the future of our community.
------------------------------------------- UPDATE -------------------------------------------
I have been accused by the Lead Mod of /bitcoinmining HighBeamHater, to be making up stuff.
He decided to come over to /bitcoin and act like he was in touch with the state of affairs concerning KnCMiner.
His callousness, showed he was indifferent to the victims of criminals over at KnCMiner, who lost large sums of money. Calling them, "Sour grapes."
A few things to clear up right away.
First off
-Batch 0 Neptunes where $10,000 USD
-Batch 1 Neptunes where $13,000 USD
Secondly
-The No Refund Policy was quietly implemented, prior to this, their refund policy was, I quote:
"All refunds will be refunded in dollars and you can refund up to shipment".
Here is the evidence KnCMiner deleted and tried to hide: Evidence Link
Everyone was under the impression and rightfully so, that you could cancel your order, as long as they had not shipped your order yet. However, that was another underhanded trick by KnCMiner. KnCMiner is refusing all Refunds, even orders whose status is Paid, and are no where near being shipped.
Thirdly
A lot of people, did not cancel their orders because of the two incentives KnCMiner offered. It was only After they had started their Processing and shipping phase, did they state that you can only pick one or the other.
Here is evidence that customers were mislead:
submitted by BostonHelper to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Proof KnCMiner is a scam.

I have been accused by your Lead Mod HighBeamHater, to be making up stuff.
He decided to come over to /bitcoin and act like he was in touch with the state of affairs concerning KnCMiner.
His callousness, showed he was indifferent to the victims of criminals over at KnCMiner, who lost large sums of money. Calling them, "Sour grapes."
I have come to you, to make my case, and after I do, you can decide who is right and who is wrong.
A few things to clear up right away.
First off
-Batch 0 Neptunes where $10,000 USD -Batch 1 Neptunes where $13,000 USD
Secondly
-The No Refund Policy was quietly implemented, prior to this, their refund policy was, I quote:
"All refunds will be refunded in dollars and you can refund up to shipment".
Here is the evidence KnCMiner deleted and tried to hide: Evidence Link
Everyone was under the impression and rightfully so, that you could cancel your order, as long as they had not shipped your order yet. However, that was another underhanded trick by KnCMiner. KnCMiner is refusing all Refunds, even orders whose status is Paid, and are no where near being shipped.
Thirdly
A lot of people, did not cancel their orders because of the two incentives KnCMiner offered. It was only After they had started their Processing and shipping phase, did they state that you can only pick one or the other.
Here is evidence that customers were mislead:
I have provided you with all the Evidence you requested.
Please, either man up and come to terms that you were wrong on the subject, or continue to be blind to the overwhelming evidence.
For the rest of you, please consider reading the following posts before you decide to deal with KnCMiner.
If you need to catch up read the following posts:
Post A - Lies to keep customers from refund, only to backtrack on the promise
Post B - Censoring customers who are pointing out that the units they are getting for used
Post C - Sends out old used and broken units to customers
Post D - Scamming Customers out of 2 for 1 and Plan B
Post E - Refund Queue a Scam
submitted by BostonHelper to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

BFL's illegal refund policy.

So I tried to cancel my BFL preorder today, and I was met with this wall of text.
|While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy. Some customers have asked why we've given order cancellation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancellation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms. Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer." As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected. However, we have added a new feature to your account dashboard. You have the option of selling your order. There are more details and instructions on how to do so on our facebook page. Announcing a Pre-Order Marketplace
New customers frequently ask us how they can move up in the order queue, and at times offer us more money to do so. Of course, we refuse. We also have customers who decide to sell their orders on eBay or other venues. Unfortunately, doing so requires a secure form of transfer, and the trust factor simply makes it difficult for a seller to find buyers.
Butterfly Labs is excited to announce a platform that will help merge the needs of both parties. Starting today, a seller will be able to announce the sale of their pre-order position in our classifieds forum. They will establish the terms of sale and make the deal on their own. Once a deal has been made, they will use the transfer system in their account Dashboard to transfer an order to a new owner. When both parties verify and agree to the terms, the order will be moved to the buyer's account.
The order transfer system was set in place September 10, 2013.Butterfly Labs will only provide the platform for the order transfer to take place. We are not responsible for any deals made between our customers. Use of the order transfer system is solely the risk of the parties making the order transfer deal. Buyer's must agree to the original terms of the sale, and specifically to the no refund policy. Here is the relevant FTC guideline text: "when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
Combine this with the FAQ from the website http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/ :
|Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer." As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected. Here is the relevant FTC guideline text: "when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
I went and read the http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule and it states that if the consumer agrees to an indefinite shipping period aka "2 or more months" they are legally allowed to seek a refund up until their order is shipped.
What to do if you want a refund: File a complaint with the FTC https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1 File a complaint with your state's attorny general. File a complaint with the BBB. If you paid with a credit card there are often laws about being charged for a product before it is shipped to you, contact your credit card company. If you paid with paypal file a complaint with them.
Hope this helps someone else, and the FTC, BBB and attorney generals take action on behalf of consumers, not individuals, so hopefully if more people take action something may get done.
submitted by air139 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

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Bitcoin mining hardware supplier Butterfly Labs resumed its business operations this week following the court’s permission. The Missouri-based company was shut downed since September 2014, following a complaint made by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). This page was last edited on 9 March 2015, at 00:00. Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 unless otherwise noted.; Privacy policy; About ... Butterfly Labs and two of its operators have agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that they deceived thousands of consumers about the availability, profitability, and newness of machines designed to mine the virtual currency known as Bitcoin, and that they unfairly kept consumers’ up-front payments despite failing to deliver the machines as promised. Butterfly Labs is operational and issuing refunds. I just received HUGE refund in Bitcoin. If you're owed a refund, keep an eye out for correspondence from BFL. I just received an email from them along with a huge refund in Bitcoin. What a great day to receive an exchange-rate-based refund! EDIT: people are (understandably) asking for proof. Happy to show a mod the txid/emails if interested ... Butterfly Labs, the complaint alleges, also offered a service beginning in December 2013 in which consumers would pay up front for Bitcoin “mining services” in which the company would provide Bitcoins to consumers in exchange for payment for computing time. The complaint notes that by August 2014, Butterfly Labs had not provided any Bitcoin mining services to consumers, despite some having ...

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